We're here with Sarabeth Perry, who is the founder and CEO of Bace Health, a natural health company focused on unlocking the potential of hemp for health. And today we're going to talk about using cannabinoids with a thyroid condition, some of the myths that surround this topic and what doctors have to say about it.
[00:00:28] And Sarabeth has a really interesting educational background and professional background. She also has a really interesting health journey that she's been on. And so Sarabeth, I'm hoping to start, you can tell us a bit more about you, what you do. And the journey you've been on that's led to founding Bace.
[00:00:45] My personal history really led into my professional history career, et cetera. Health has always been something that I've just been acutely aware of. Mainly because when I was 18 months old, I was diagnosed with neuroblastoma, which is a type of childhood cancer. And thankfully everything with that is
[00:01:09] all good. I stopped going to official check-ups when I was seven. And having that as a, framework or book-ending, book-beginning, for my life and something that I was told a lot about from a young age, just always made me very aware of health and also It just always the idea of wow, things could be so much worse for me.
[00:01:31]And that kind of has always carried with me, as something like that would. And yeah, really when I was younger, health was something I took for granted, I think because I was a professional-- not professional-- highly competitive amateur figure skater from the time I was five to 11.
[00:01:52] So during that, I was in my peak physical shape, but also dealing with a lot of injuries and having to constantly be on top of my health, which as a child, like it's strangely easy if you just do all the things. I was a super, super fit kid. And then as I started to get older, I think this happens with everyone, but just, you become increasingly aware of the frailty of your body.
[00:02:18] And with that comes increasing gratitude for the mobility and health that you do have. So I had a benign bone tumor in my right fibula that I had to get blasted out with an experimental treatment out of U of M. And then from there I developed RSD, which is reflex sympathetic dystrophy, which basically just meant my leg hurt all the time and nothing was actually wrong.
[00:02:43] And then I actually did develop a stress fracture from that afterwards. And so that ended my skating career, but then I would have fainting spells all the time from low blood pressure. And then in college I developed a thyroid nodule literally out of nowhere. And one of my friends pointed it out to me and was like, Hey, you look like you have a goiter on your throat.
[00:03:06] You should probably get that checked out. Totally non cancerous. So I was like, okay, this is a win. And then I had to get that taken out and that has been like the backbone of my thyroid journey per se. But all these experiences with health, just, I think informed the way that I looked, look, and currently look at the world.
[00:03:29]And I truly believe that health is the most precious gift that we can have. And I'm so grateful that like I'm very healthy now. Everything is for the most part completely in my control. But that kind of took me on a journey to wanting to work in health. Somehow I thought I was going to go to med school.
[00:03:52] So my last two years in college, I went premed. And then before I went down that route, I found a really cool master's program at Duke in North Carolina that studied the intersection of theology, medicine, and culture. And it just totally combined everything that I was interested in terms of the human
[00:04:09] experience, getting to understand from a lot of my colleagues and professors who were practicing physicians, what it was like to work with lots of humans who were ill all the time. And that led me to having my first career in clinical research at Mount Sinai, where I was helping to build a home-based palliative care program for people with multiple chronic illnesses.
[00:04:34]And long story short, I developed relationships with a lot of the patients and a lot of caregivers and a resounding question and sentiment, a lot of, that was a lot of the times posed to me was, how can I use cannabis? And I've heard about this thing called CBD, but how can I use it safely?
[00:04:52]And I think what struck a nerve for me, it was that back in 2018, when the farm bill passed, there were a lot of companies coming out, mainly focused on the wellness and yeah, like health and wellness aspect-- bath bombs, oils, lotions, and those things are great and totally have their place. But I was thinking from the perspective of the patients that I was working with, thinking about what would be a safe way for them to try CBD in a world where a lot of the healthcare system
[00:05:27] isn't totally ready for that conversation. Primarily because doctors aren't trained on the endocannabinoid system and don't feel comfortable liability-wise recommending it necessarily. And yeah, in a nutshell, that was the basis for Bace, the foundation for Bace was,
[00:05:45] how can we improve the efficacy of a consumer product and provide people with evidence based methods for incorporating this into their lives and at the safest and most effective way possible? I think for the sake of this conversation, it'd be interesting if you could break down what is the endocannabinoid system?
[00:06:08] So it was identified in the 1990s. Obviously cannabis has been around forever. But the endocannabinoid system itself is just really starting to be cracked open. And it's, the definition of it is a complex cell signaling system. And what that kind of means is that it is a system by which your body produces endocannabinoids which are endogenous to your body.
[00:06:37] So this doesn't have to do with cannabis, CBD, any cannabinoids at all. On your own, your body produces endocannabinoids. And they interact with the cell receptors. So mainly their CB1 and CB2. CV1 is found mostly in the central nervous system. And CB2 is found mostly in the peripheral nervous system, mostly immune cells.
[00:07:01]And then there are enzymes that break down the endocannabinoid system. So between the endocannabinoids, the receptors and enzymes, all of your body, they're talking to each other and helping communicate certain messages to yourself at the highest level. We're still trying to figure out more about it.
[00:07:19] And that's a whole conversation about research and why we don't know more about it. But so far we know that it plays some kind of a role in regulating certain functions, like sleep, mood, appetite, memory, and even like reproduction and fertility. Yeah. So from the highest level cell signaling system, crucial to a lot of communication efforts and a lot of our essential functions as humans.
[00:07:48] So if our endocannabinoid system is internal, it's already in us, I guess the next question is then how do hemp products, external products, how do they interact with the endocannabinoid system? And can you break down through the difference between hemp and CBD? Yes.
[00:08:08] Yes. So this is what is so fascinating to me and every time I read about it and every time that I dive into the research, I'm just like, I'm just blown away by plants and the body and how they interact with each other. So essentially your endocannabinoids interact with the receptors.
[00:08:28]The cannabinoids that are found within cannabis, sativa L, to use the proper term, also interact with the receptors. So basically the phytocannabinoids-- is what they're called, phyto being from plants-- they interact with the receptors, they bind to the receptors and they also, they are essentially a supplement to your body's natural endocannabinoids.
[00:08:51] So when you are, partaking in CBD or other cannabinoids you're doing something to your body and your body responds to it. The interesting thing, for thyroid specifically, and this is something that's still being worked on and trying to understand more, is that there are specific cannabinoid receptors that are located on
[00:09:13] cells that are on the thyroid gland. So there's definitely something happening there. And then there's there are receptors that are identified, also the part of the brain that sends signals to the thyroid that, that part of the brain helps to regulate the activities of the thyroid. And that's called the hypothalamic paraventricular nucleus, the PBN.
[00:09:34]There's definitely a lot of activity within the thyroid. And I think there are a few articles that I think are saying there's a bit of like negative regulation. But there's still a lot more that needs to be done in terms of understanding exactly how how it works and what the signaling does.
[00:09:48]But. Yeah. So essentially, the endocannabinoids that are from your body, the phytocannabinoids that are from plants, and those two things, both interact with the receptors and the enzymes in your body, which is mind blowing. There's actually a theory out there. And I don't know how much I agree with this, but there's a theory that like, because we have these receptors that we essentially co evolved with cannabis as a plant it's been around for so long and there's been documentation of it being used thousands of years ago.
[00:10:21] And then there's also theory that because hemp was artificially taken out of our society. Back in the 1930s that we all have cannabinoid deficiencies. And it's an interesting theory. Again, I don't know how much I agree with it. But it's interesting to think about the fact that we did have cannabinoids in our food system because they would use the hemp for food for the cows, and then we would eat the cows, drink the milk.
[00:10:51]And how it's just, hasn't been as large of a player as that used to be. In terms of the difference between hemp and CBD. That's a really great question. And something that gets brought up all the time, because of the way that I think. From an industry perspective, the term CBD was haphazardly coined in my humble opinion. Probably would have done something similar if I was in their shoes, not judging. But essentially hemp has a connotation of being from textiles and rope and something that you see at the farmer's market and CBD as an acronym
[00:11:26]I think, was put out there in terms of something to sell because it was different from THC and it was easily differentiated from the psychoactive compound, THC. However it gets really confusing, really fast, especially for consumers who are new to it because that it's not accurate.
[00:11:47]It's actually not accurate to call CBD the way that it's sold. There are multiple kinds of CBD. There's CBD isolate, there's CBD broad spectrum, there's CBD full spectrum. And CBD isolate is just the cannabinoid. CBD broad spectrum says that there's multiple cannabinoids and multiple turpines, but they take out all the THC, which I have a little bit of a gripe with.
[00:12:09] And I don't think is-- it's essentially very hard to completely take out a hundred percent. You can take out a lot of it. But there's, it's really difficult to take on all of it. And then there's CBD full spectrum, which leaves the trace THC in the oil. But the most important thing, I think to know the easiest way that I've been able to understand it when I was first entering into the industry, was that you have the taxonomical, you have the taxonomy, it's the plant.
[00:12:35] It goes from cannabasia, which is where we get our name Bace, goes to cannabis. And then if cannabis sativa, cannabis indigo, and then it goes to cannabis sativa L and from there you have hemp and what's commonly known as marijuana, although we don't like that term. And those two are technically part of the same taxonomy.
[00:13:00] And basically the only difference between hemp and cannabis is the percentage of THC. So 0.3% or less, it's hemp. 0.3% or more, it's marijuana cannabis. Yeah. And there's some more technical differences, but that's essentially it. Hemp, technically, is it still has all the cannabinoids in a oil that is from hemp and in oil, that's from cannabis, you still have all the cannabinoids.
[00:13:33] It just depends on the different levels. I think even breaking down, like what the labels at the grocery store now or online and understanding what you're even looking at, I'll ask you later what someone might want to be looking for if they're looking for hemp products, but I think that's a good place to start understanding sort of these differences.
[00:13:51]And it's also very confusing too. Products will sometimes be sold as hemp oil and that is most likely a different thing than hemp extract. And that's a differentiation that like none of this has been professionalized or at least officially categorized by anyone. So someone could be selling something called hemp oil and it has cannabinoids, even though that would not be a good decision,
[00:14:18] I think from a marketing perspective. And then someone could be selling hemp oil and it's just the oil from the seeds. There's cannabinol. And that gets really confusing for people, especially when, things being sold on Amazon and it's like really expensive, but then you look and there's no cannabinoids.
[00:14:32]It definitely gives a bad name for the industry. But it is super, super confusing to navigate as a consumer. Sure. Even just hearing you talk, it sounds like murky to try and figure out what is this product and is it the right product for me, where it may also be confusing for a lot of people is like, cannabinoid use was taboo for a long time.
[00:14:50] And I think it still is in many totally places. And there's a misunderstanding about the difference between CBD and THC and this sort of thing. I'm wondering if you can tell us a bit about some of these myths or these confusions people might have or assumptions they make about hemp and CBD?
[00:15:06] Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I think this is really an interesting question and point because the 2018 pharm bill federally legalized the like growing of, or the, you could basically set up farming programs, state to grow hemp based CBD. And I say hemp based CBD because you can technically create a product with the same ratio of cannabinoids CBD, CBG, CBC, THC. And then have the same exact oil--
[00:15:40] cBD CBG, CBC THC, the same milligram amounts, but if they are extracted from a plant that has by dry weight, more than 0.3% THC it's not considered CBD. So even if it has less than 0.3% THC in the oil that comes from a plant where there's more THC, it's considered a cannabis based oil. But CBD with 0.3% less or less THC is allowed.
[00:16:12] So that's the first thing. And THC is really the compound that dictates a lot of the, I think taboo-ness. And so the first thing is just, making sure that the product we're using has 0.3% or less THC. And in that case, a myth of will this get me high at 0.3% or less of THC?
[00:16:35] It shouldn't. Definitely shouldn't. If it does then the company has more THC in the product than they're disclosing. That's something too that we talked about customers a lot about is like what to expect. And I think because a lot of people are new to the category. They are worried they're going to feel drowsy or they're going to feel tired because of the trace THC.
[00:16:57] And what we say is, our advice, like most doctor's advice, is to start low and go slow. And that really reduces the risk that you're going to take too much for your body and experience some of those side effects like drowsiness or sleepiness. So I think that's a huge one. And then another one that I hear a lot is it addictive?
[00:17:19] And that goes back to the THC as well. Because when something is addictive, it's usually because there's some sort of intoxicating effect. And the THC is the compound that causes the intoxicating effects where you feel high. And we, a lot of people will say, Cannabis in any form is completely non-addictive.
[00:17:40]And I think there's still a conversation around that because when people do report sometimes like having a dependency or cannabis disuse, cannabis misuse disorder, or something where there's definitely some kind of dependency. And I think that's up for debate for our products specifically and most upstanding CBD companies.
[00:18:00]It's definitely not addictive, but that's definitely where I'd start with most people who are new that's. Yeah, I think that's helpful. And those are probably the two biggest things I've heard and I'm not in the industry about, is it addictive? Yeah. Will I get high?
[00:18:15]You talked a bit earlier about what the research says around cannabis and cannabinoid use related to your thyroid. I'm wondering if you have any additional insight or any insight about what doctors have said about using cannabinoids with thyroid disease? Yeah, and I think this goes back a little bit to what I was saying at the beginning about doctors, for good reason, not feeling super comfortable recommending
[00:18:40] necessarily that people take CBD products and it's a twofold issue. One they're not-- doctors right now, the endocannabinoid system is not taught in medical school. So for doctors who are trained to go by the book and use evidence-based practices, I think it feels wrong and foreign to them to say, yeah,
[00:19:03]take this thing. On the other hand, research has been really limited in the U.S. particularly because of the taboo surrounding it. So universities, and even like private research groups, can't get federally funded grants to do research. It's really hard to get permission from private donors from the university, to use private money for
[00:19:30] studies. There's some exciting things coming out of Harvard lab that I can link about anxiety and CBD, but it's just so limited and there are studies from time to time, but the body of work in comparison to so many other treatments per se is super limited. The one medication that is on the market is Epidiolex and that's used for children with seizures, and that is using a high doses of CBD isolate.
[00:19:57]And so that was approved and I think there are a few more coming through soon. But it's interesting because it gets into the topic of is this been studied with cannabinoids from a plant-- like CBD from a plant-- or is it synthetic? Is it full spectrum or is it isolate? And so there's a lot of even within the whole body of work, it gets confusing pretty fast.
[00:20:17] And that just speaks to the complexity of introducing these multi multi chemical plants into, medications. And that's a broader conversation in regards to herbs as well, and like how we use plants because within CBD. And I'm getting off on a bit of a tangent here, but there are multiple phytochemicals that are pharmacologically active, and that just means they do things to your body.
[00:20:48] Like plants are powerful. And I think the way that we've been treating them up to now is a little willy nilly. That's why, for instance, we only create like a minimal ingredient product, because we want you to have all the cannabinoids and all the turbines naturally for the plant.
[00:21:03] But I don't believe in adding in additional herbs, because if you are trying to start low, go slow, and really figure out if this is something that's good for you and good for your body, then you don't want to have, St John's wart and there as well, but has like many pharmacologically active chemicals just in that one plant interacting as well. And gets into a conversation about medication interactions as well.
[00:21:29] But essentially the general advice that doctors that I've spoken to say is start low, go slow. And most of the time, they'll say if it's helping, great. But don't self-medicate. Talk to your doctor, make sure at the bare minimum, they're aware that this is something you are trying so that you can get your labs taken more often, more frequently, and keep an eye on the things that are really important for your particular situation. Something
[00:22:01] we talk about a lot at Paloma Health is being in partnership with your doctor and being open to treatments or therapies that might benefit you. Finding a doctor, whether it's with Paloma Health or otherwise, but finding a doctor who you can be in partnership with and have a really trusting relationship and say, I'm interested in trying this
[00:22:19] I want you to know what I'm doing or trying or thinking about so that we can continue to look at my health as a whole. But it's interesting to hear what you're saying about like research coming out and new medications coming out and this evolution of the industry.
[00:22:33] And while that's happening while there's not a ton of fear research, it's useful to be in partnership with your doctor to manage your case. Yeah, like being, whether this is for better or for worse being your own advocate is so important. And I know that's really hard for a lot of people because everyone's so busy and everyone has way more on their plate than should be humanly allowed.
[00:22:58]We got, you gotta do it cause it's just, it's important for you to have the, your best health and yeah. Yeah. It's just super important. So totally agree. I think to follow up what you've just said, like you have shared a bit about your personal health history, your history with thyroid condition.
[00:23:17] I'm wondering if you can share with those who are watching about your personal experience using cannabinoids, its effect on either your thyroid health or your related symptoms and just your personal experience, what it's been like for you? When I discovered I had the nodule and then had it taken out and you can still see my scar there they did a really nice job, so it's fading nicely, and I put a ton of sunscreen on it, always.
[00:23:40]It, it was interesting because I think the biggest reason that I started using cannabinoids was for anxiety. And while that really only started after my issues with my thyroid, I don't necessarily think it was because of my thyroid issues. There are a lot of environmental factors going on.
[00:24:02]My job was super stressful. I was commuting two hours a day. I was living in a big city for the first time. And there was just a lot going on, though. It's hard for me to handle. And it was the first time where I, you know, I thought I had felt being stressed or anxious before, but like having a panic attack in the middle of the night where I had to like the worst time for me with anxiety, stress was like, I, I get a rush of stress, cortisol, whatever, and then I can feel it like pumping through my veins.
[00:24:37] And there was one night where I was just circling, thinking, thinking. And I woke up in the middle of the night and just could not snap out of the cycle for whatever reason. I don't even remember what I was thinking about, but it's something related to work. And I had to go out in the living room and just turn on a meditation time timer and count like one to five and back for 45 minutes and then like I finally started to calm down. But that feeling was just, I never wanted to experience it again. And I had never been like someone who used cannabis, frankly. I just didn't do it growing up. I was, really, I was skating all the time when I was younger and that kind of led into me being very, adverse to risk when I was in high school college, a little bit, but not really at all.
[00:25:30]And so CBD was just something I tried because I was trying everything. And I think the best way to describe what it has done for me is-- my daily dose per se, and I'm at the point now where I don't take it every day, I don't think you need to take it every day if you don't need to. We have a lot of customers who do, especially those struggling with chronic pain.
[00:25:53] But for me, it's like when I know when I feel the cycle coming on in my brain, it's I sometimes it helps to short circuit the cycle is the best way to describe it. And it snaps my body and to the not stressed state. So then I have time to adjust my mind, adjust my habits, make sure that like I work out that day, make sure I'm going to sleep,
[00:26:17] I'm not on my phone. Like all the little things that add up because they definitely do. And just gives me time to do those things too. Perpetuate the calm and not get into the negative stress cycle, because when that goes overboard, it's just a pain getting back to normal. And sometimes it can take two days and I'm at the point now where I'm just like, I just don't have time for that.
[00:26:40] Like I know I don't want to deal with it. Who does, but. Yeah I think it, it helps me there. I'm definitely of the opinion and I'm more of a minimalist. So aside from my thyroid medication and my daily vitamins, I'm not a huge supplement person. A lot of people find the most benefit when they take a daily.
[00:27:03] I just think if the product works, you don't need to take it daily and that's yeah, that's my personal experience. It's been helpful for sure. But it's also just, it's a tool in my toolbox and that's how I think of it, that experience and how it feels for you.
[00:27:20] And I don't think that, I guess I do think that people watching, our patients experience the same thing, whether it's directly related to their thyroid or not-- like stress, the adrenal glands and the thyroid gland are so connected, but this is not an uncommon experience. And so I think that's a really interesting way to use your product or way to use cannabinoids in general.
[00:27:41]You mentioned something, you take it for stress. You mentioned a lot of people use it for chronic pain. My next question is what should people look for if they're considering the use of cannabinoids, but I guess the question before that is what are some of the reasons someone might consider using this product?
[00:27:55] Yeah. So first question. Why would someone consider using this product? Being super transparent and upfront, this was a question that we had to really think about early on in the company. It was a question we got from investors all the time, which was how are you going to be different if you're not marketing towards the particular indication or usage.
[00:28:21] And we were getting pushed to market only for stress, or market only for sleep, or to own the pain world. And, I don't know if this was completely, you never know if it's the right decision, but just from our perspective, I wanted to be intellectually honest with customers and with people because this is a new category and we don't know right now, the truth is we don't know if this is better for sleep than it is for stress than it is for pain.
[00:28:51] So what we just say is we're giving you the best possible product, and we know that it can be used to potentially help x, y, and z, sleep, stress, pain. So those are the three main indicators. A lot of people, a lot of our customers say it really helps them with focus. But yeah, anxiety and pain and sleep are definitely the big three-- specifically staying asleep.
[00:29:16]The, for women going through menopause, this is a really big benefit that they've reported seeing. And I'm so interested too, when more research comes out on it to talk about it more. And it's really interesting because the hormones that are and I'll send you this research article, but the hormones that are present during menopause are such that a lot of women like need a higher dose.
[00:29:43]We recommend you take it like a few hours, not right before bed, but a few hours before bed, because with the trace THC, it has the slight off chance that it might actually cause alertness. So by taking it a few hours ahead of time, you can bypass that risk and just have the calmness and then have it help you stay asleep.
[00:30:04]And then in terms of what someone should look for, if they're exploring the use of cannabinoids, the first consideration that I would make is your personal circumstances, we tend to be partial towards people who are taking it for more of a health reason rather than a wellness or just like additional supplemental reason.
[00:30:25] Although a lot of people who do that as well. So basically just saying are you on additional medications? The cannabinoids go through are broken down by an enzyme called and that tends to it's like grapefruit. You know how people say, don't take this medication or don't eat grapefruit while you're on this medication, it's the same rule for CBD and cannabinoids.
[00:30:45] And you just want to be aware. I think. The doctors that I've spoken to aren't always super worried, except for if you're on blood thinning medications, like wherein I just do not recommend you take it. But if you are on multiple medications or a medication, I would personally recommend going for a minimal ingredient product that has only two or three ingredients, no fillers, no colorings, no additional herbs. And just go for a really high quality extraction. And there, there are multiple types of extractions. The most common is CO2 and ethanol. We personally prefer a chemical free extraction that infuses the oil into, so it infuses the cannabinoids directly into the organic coconut oil.
[00:31:29] So you don't have to go through the bypassing of CO2 and ethanol. Because that it tends to strip the cannabinoids apart, and then you have to add them back together. And sometimes you don't get the full profile or companies will end up adding in cannabinoids from external plants. And, turpines from external plants as well.
[00:31:49]So simple is fast. You want to see the labs like the lab results, for sure. You want to know what type of extraction? And I personally really prefer no food coloring or fillers or emulsifiers, especially because a lot of CBD products have emulsifiers in them. And that can cause stomach issues.
[00:32:12] The interesting thing, and maybe we, I don't know if this is relevant, but when we were going through the supply chain exercise and like trying to find our supply chain partners, it was really scary how little information we as potential partners were getting from certain parts of the supply chain.
[00:32:29]There were some people that wanted to partner with us that wouldn't tell us what kind of extraction they used. And it's that's a basic, that's a basic piece that every consumer should know going into buying this. And yeah, there's a lot that like major manufacturers will not give away for the sake of them wanting to be the only supplier out there.
[00:32:50]So I would just push for as much information as possible and don't be shy about it because it's your body and you deserve to know, I really appreciate you sharing it. All of this information and sort of some of the behind the scenes of the industry. I think it's really helpful for me and for other people to hear.
[00:33:05]I guess my last question for you is what's next for Bace? There's so much that I'm excited about. The main thing is, so we have the discovery pack which is a seven day titration kit. And there's research around the steady state, which is how long cannabinoids stay in your body. And that's how long, you're on you, you take one strength
[00:33:25] at a time so that you have, you really understand like what that strength feels like for you. So that's the main hero product and from there we offer subscriptions. You don't have to have a subscription. We want to make it like a purely beneficial thing. And we right now we send them in glass vials, but we are moving to compostable refill packets, which I'm so excited for because we love our glass vials
[00:33:52] and a lot of our customers love them, but you don't need 20 glass vials. So that's something really exciting. And we've been working on the formulation for a really potent deep muscle ball that is going to be. Amazing. It smells really good. It's also minimal ingredient using the same non-chemical extraction method.
[00:34:16]And it's formulated in a way that gets deeper into the muscle because of the specific melting point. So that's the main thing coming up that I'm really excited for. Because we've been trying to work on it for a long time and it's now the right time to do it, but yeah we feel packaging that, we're,
[00:34:35]as much as a small company can, always trying to push for more eco-friendliness and less burden on the consumer. Those are the main things coming up for us. I love it. That's exciting as someone who lives with joint pain, I'm excited about the rub you guys are-- yeah. If people want to find learn more from you or learn more about basically yarn, Instagram as bacecollective, B A C E collective.
[00:35:00]And then we're on the internet, obviously as bace health dot com. So you can go there and then you can also email me directly if you want at sarahbeth at bacehealth dot com. I always try to answer as much as I can. So we'd love to hear thoughts, questions, suggestions, always open for it. But yeah, Instagram is where we do most of our communication.
[00:35:27] And then our website as well, we have a little Intercom chat that can we answer all questions there as well. So we try to make ourselves available. This has been so good. Thank you so much for sharing all of this information. I think it's been helpful to me. And hopefully it's helpful to all of those who watch this.
[00:35:45] So Sarabeth, I really appreciate your time and all of your knowledge-- thank you so much for having me. Happy to.